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HOPE Network Leadership Podcast
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Latest episode
Host Conversation
A Broad Conversation about Spiritual Formation
with Steven Carrizal and Jason Locke
Jason and Steven explore spiritual formation through the lenses of experimentation, habit formation, adaptive leadership, evangelism, and the long arc of becoming more like God—offering a refreshing, grace-filled vision of spiritual growth rooted in curiosity, patience, and the Spirit’s ongoing work in every person.
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About this episode
Steven shares how trying new practices—and even failing at them—has reshaped his prayer life, reduced anxiety, and opened space for genuine transformation.
Jason reflects on spiritual formation as a lifelong journey rather than a single conversion moment, drawing from campus ministry, the Engel scale, and Eastern Orthodox ideas of theosis.
“Failure can be a spiritual discipline. It can be a window for spiritual formation.”
— Jason Locke
Key ideas
Spiritual disciplines become transformative when approached as experiments—try something, reflect, adjust, try again.
Steven describes shifting from obligation-driven disciplines to practices that shape his inner life.
Borrowing from Heifetz, Steven frames spiritual formation as iterative learning rather than static performance.
How routines, triggers, rewards, and intentional practices can reshape thinking, behavior, and relationships.
Steven shares his Lenten practice of “giving up worrying about tomorrow” and how Scripture became a trigger for peace.
Jason reframes evangelism as helping people take the next step in their journey, not rushing them to baptism.
Drawing on the Engel scale: people begin at different places, and spiritual formation honors their starting point.
Jason reflects on Eastern Orthodox ideas of becoming like God and how they challenge perfectionism.
Failure opens pathways to growth that success alone cannot.
From the conversation
“
You’re practicing something. You’re not perfecting it.
— Steven Carrizal
“
How do I help people develop a little bit on their journey of faith, wherever that is?
— Jason Locke
“
God’s doing the work and we’re participating in it, but we’re not controlling it at all.
— Steven Carrizal
“
Failure is as much of a teacher as success is.
— Steven Carrizal
Resources mentioned
- Ronald Heifetz — adaptive leadership
- Charles Duhigg — The Power of Habit
- James Clear — Atomic Habits
- Dallas Willard — writings on the spiritual disciplines
- Richard Foster — writings on the spiritual disciplines
- The Engel Scale of Evangelism
- Eastern Orthodox theology — theosis
- The Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 6–7) — “Do not worry about tomorrow” and “Be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect”
- Ted Lasso — “Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection” (attributed to Mark Twain)
Catch up on past conversations
Every episode is packed with encouragement for church leaders.